Lost in the fog

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Posts by Lost in the fog

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  24

  Stupid WT Q's : Is It Wise or Safe to Keep a Dog?  Demons—How Can We Resist Them?

  by Sea Breeze in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  yes, that is an actual question in the awake magazine.

  jw kids lives are already miserable enough trying to obey all the ignorant rules of the wt.. no sports, no school dance, no holidays.... just field service.

  as if that isn't enough.... let's take away their puppy dogs too!.

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  Lost in the fog

  Of course that's what Paul said in Philippians 3v2 "Beware of the dogs."

  🤣🤣🤣
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  2

  Did Satan keep on Attracting Demons to his side?

  by Lost in the fog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  if you still believe in god and the devil.. .

  where did the demons come from?.

  the wt says that they are the angels who came to earth and had relations with women on earth, who on return to heaven were thrown into tartarus.

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  Lost in the fog

  If you still believe in God and the Devil.

  
  

  Where did the demons come from?

  The WT says that they are the angels who came to earth and had relations with women on earth, who on return to heaven were thrown into Tartarus.

  And Tartarus according to the WT is not a place but a condition in darkness away from the light of God which sounds like the heavenly equivalent of a Naughty Step rather than a maximum security prison…

  Yet elsewhere in the Bible the wicked spirit creatures are active in heavenly places. (Eph 6:12)

  The Bible also describes demons being active on the earth at the same time as in the account of Jesus and the Gadarene swine (Luke 8:31-34).

  And in the Revelation account there's that big war in heaven between the forces of good and evil and the demons get booted out to fall spiralling down to the earth trailing fire like a shot down spitfire in WW2. (Don't you remember that really silly picture in the red study book!?)

  If after the flood the angels were put into lockdown (didn't Jesus preach to the spirits in prison?), where were all these other demons coming from in the centuries afterwards? Maybe Satan was continuously attracting more angels with doubts about God to his side?

  The WT explanation has never made sense. If you still believe in God or the Devil what is your take on the matter?
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  22

  questions for those who were once elders

  by enoughisenough in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  i watched some wendi renay youtube videos.

  the former elder who was being interviewed mentioned a couple of things i noted.

  i would like to know what your reactions were at the time you learned what i am going to relate if you had the same or kindred experience.

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  Lost in the fog

  I've never heard that elders are angels statement.

  But then again you have to remember that a lot of what the CO said was the opinion of that particular CO. I discovered that something a CO said about the 1st Century Christian church from the platform was not true after doing my own fact-checking. After that I fact checked most statements for myself - probably something that started the blinkers falling off my eyes!!

  I do agree with the 2nd point as it was often said at meetings. The Hebrew Scriptures were written for the Jews, and the Christian Scriptures were written by and for people who had a heavenly hope. But are of interest to the "other sheeples" while not applying to them directly.

  It's why the WT applies a lot of the Mosaic Law to the congregation, they're not under the Law, but it is stuck on them to obey in parts.

  It's also why a brother or sister queries something they read in the Bible's NT and are told "but that doesn't apply to you, it's for the anointed ones only."
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  20

  The position of Christ in the Godhead

  by JW Answers in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is your views on christ?.

  do you hold to the view that christ and the father are the same person?

  do you hold to the view that jesus is a lesser god than the father?.

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  Lost in the fog

  I think it boils down to this. If you believe in the Trinity you'll interpret verses to back up your beliefs.

  If you don't believe in the Trinity you will point out verses to back up your belief.

  I've heard arguments both for and against.

  
  

  A lot of it is like circumstantial evidence rather than factual proof.

  From a historical perspective, respected scholars report that first century Christians didn't believe that Jesus was God Almighty. They acknowledge it took several centuries for the idea to develop and percolate down through the catholic church.

  
  

  ONLINE ENCYCLOPEDIA BRITANNICA: "Neither the word “Trinity” nor the explicit doctrine appears in the New Testament, nor did Jesus and his followers intend to contradict the Shema in the Hebrew Scriptures: “Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord” (Deuteronomy 6:4)."

  
  

  I wish I could access my personal library of history and theology books which unfortunately are packed away in boxes for us moving house although I was able to dig out my notes on Origen's First Principles here, QUOTE "The God and Father, who holds the universe together, is superior to every being that exists, for he imparts to each one from his own existence that which each one is; the Son, being less than the Father, is superior to rational creatures alone (for he is second to the Father); the Holy Spirit is still less, and dwells within the saints alone. So that in this way the power of the Father is greater than that of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, and that of the Son is more than that of the Holy Spirit. (Origen, FP, 33,34)

  
  

  Now he was a lot closer to source (people who had known Christ and the apostles or whose parents had) than any of us!

  Origen's expression reminds me of the principle for family headship as set forth in Scripture. Each one being below the next tier upwards.

  (Do people who believe that the F, S, + HS are equal, dismiss 1 Corinthians 11v3? I'd love to hear how they interpret it. But that will have to be a question for another day!)

  Going back to the Encyclopaedia Britannica's online article - "It was not until LATER in the 4TH CENTURY that the distinctness of the three and their unity were brought together in a single orthodox doctrine of one essence and three persons."

  
  

  Hardly blindingly obvious from Scripture if it took 400 years for such learned men to formulate a doctrine that continued to be argued over - and as the posts here on Jehovah's Witnesses Discussion show - continue to be argued over to this very day.
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  9

  No part of the world

  by Lost in the fog in

  1. watchtower
  2. bible

  the wt calls itself christian while at the same time insisting that its witnesses don't mix with other christian groups but remain separate.. to be no part of the world.. i was mulling this over recently in my personal bible reading.

  in the first century that demarcation would have made sense because apart from your fellow worshippers the rest of mankind were going to be jewish, roman, polytheistic, pagan, or (i guess much like today) didn't really care.. christians had no worries about meeting up with other people who believed in jesus the same as they did even if there were minor differences depending on who had first taught the gospel message to them.

  but nowadays there's not just one christian group against the world, there's lots of "christians" out there.

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  Lost in the fog

  The WT calls itself Christian while at the same time insisting that its witnesses don't mix with other Christian groups but remain separate.

  To be no part of the world.

  I was mulling this over recently in my personal Bible reading. In the first century that demarcation would have made sense because apart from your fellow worshippers the rest of mankind were going to be Jewish, Roman, polytheistic, pagan, or (I guess much like today) didn't really care.

  Christians had no worries about meeting up with other people who believed in Jesus the same as they did even if there were minor differences depending on who had first taught the gospel message to them.

  But nowadays there's not just one Christian group against the world, there's lots of "Christians" out there. So logically why would separation need to continue with no contact?

  Now I know what the average JW would probably say, while most of us here eventually recognised that it was simply a cult building an imaginary wall around it's devotees to stop them getting out and listening to other people.

  As Jesus said "where two or three are gathered together in my name" the emphasis is on being Christians all together as he intended and letting Christ be present in our midst.
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  20

  The position of Christ in the Godhead

  by JW Answers in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  what is your views on christ?.

  do you hold to the view that christ and the father are the same person?

  do you hold to the view that jesus is a lesser god than the father?.

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  Lost in the fog

  Scripture taught me that Jesus died for my sins.

  He was put to death by men.

  I figured from a young age that Jesus couldn't have been God because if he was God then it meant that mere men had killed God.

  Jesus died. God cannot die. Either Jesus died or he didn't. If he didn't then we're still under the condemnation of sin and death. If he did die, he was murdered by humans. Therefore he cannot have been God Almighty. Unless you're saying that God can be killed.
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  2

  #igotout (Escape from Cults/Sects.)

  by Lost in the fog in

  1. forum
  2. links

  hi friends,.

  i stumbled upon this website by accident but i have to say that it contains a wealth of useful information.

  maybe you already knew about it, i didn't.

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  Lost in the fog

  Hi Friends,

  I stumbled upon this website by accident but I have to say that it contains a wealth of useful information. Maybe you already knew about it, I didn't. I am glad to have discovered it which is why I wanted to pass on the details to the rest of you.

  #igotout

  https://www.igotout.org/resources
  
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  Does anyone recommend this book?

  by Lost in the fog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  has anyone read this book?

  is it worth buying?

  it just appeared on my amazon recommendations page.. a voice from inside: notes on religious trauma in a captive organization.. https://amzn.eu/bow8qkt.

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  Lost in the fog

  Has anyone read this book? Is it worth buying? It just appeared on my Amazon recommendations page.

  A Voice from Inside: Notes on Religious Trauma in a Captive Organization.

  https://amzn.eu/bOW8qKT
  
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  27

  Is This New?

  by Lost in the fog in

  1. watchtower
  2. beliefs

  it is a very long time since i was an elder and the elders textbooks have changed multiple times since then.

  going back to when i was an elder, to the best of my knowledge the only way a spouse could divorce from his/her partner was porneia, if that person had sexual relations with a man, woman, child, or beast.

  but it had to be proven and that's the dubious 2 witness rule.. in fact, if it was not proven and the innocent party divorced and married someone else, then they could be hauled up in front of a judicial committee and be charged with committing adultery and disfellowshipped!

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  Lost in the fog

  "the governing bodies deluded minds sex only happens at night and if you spend the entire night at someone’s house."

  That's a fair point. If the individual goes to work every day he could be spending time with his secretary - so would the elders or others stake out his place of work with their binoculars? Lol, I'm just trying to picture that in my mind...
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  26

  JW's in war zone

  by Gorb in

  1. jw
  2. friends

  there is so much silence about the jw's in the ukraine conflict.

  are the jw men arrested because they don't want to fight?

  how is that going in the hyper nationalist fase the country is in?

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  Lost in the fog

  I find it amusing that nowadays everyone says that Putin's references to de-Nazifying Ukraine are wrong, that Ukraine never held extreme right-wing views.

  Why do I find it amusing? Because in 2014 after Russia annexed part of Ukraine, foreign fighters flocked to Ukraine to fight against Russia.

  What were the political views of most of these fighting men? For the most part they were right-wing, neo-Nazi, white supremacists. And why were they going to Ukraine? Because the Ukrainian forces held similar beliefs.

  There were several articles from various countries at the time in 2014. Here's a link to one of them - - https://www.vice.com/en/article/vb95ma/far-right-extremists-have-been-using-ukraines-civil-war-as-a-training-ground-theyre-returning-home